Part 2. Faith Under Fire: Becoming Beloved Community

What does it take to become Beloved Community?

In Part 2 of Faith Under Fire, we move beyond naming spiritual trauma to the harder work of cultivating communities rooted in dignity, accountability, and care.

Our panel explores what it takes to create spaces where people can tell the truth about racism, homophobia, transphobia, and other barriers to belonging without being left to carry those burdens alone. We discuss restorative practices, courageous leadership, and why real belonging requires more than simply saying, “All are welcome.”

From the liberatory roots of faith traditions to the responsibilities of faith leaders in this political moment, this conversation reveals what faith communities can become when they are willing to move beyond comfort and toward transformation.

ABOUT THE PANEL

Adonis Lewis II is a Black/Mexican queer organizer, strategist, and movement leader whose work centers healing, justice, and collective liberation. With nearly two decades of experience supporting grassroots movements and historically marginalized communities, Adonis has led work spanning disaster recovery, restorative justice, digital equity, and queer and trans youth advocacy. He currently serves as Director of Strategy and Impact at the Reparations Stakeholder Authority of Asheville (RSAA), leading with radical empathy, accountability, and a deep commitment to collective freedom.

Rev. Claudia Jiménez is a Unitarian Universalist community minister based in Asheville, NC, whose work centers collective liberation, racial equity, immigration justice, and faith-rooted community building. A longtime educator, minister, and leader in faith formation, she is also part of the Racial Equity Collective, which organizes Racial Equity Institute trainings in Asheville. Claudia brings a deeply relational approach to justice work grounded in collaboration, belonging, and thriving for all.

Malachi Gasaway is a native of Asheville, NC, a Christian, and a queer man whose journey through faith and identity continues to shape his commitment to justice-centered spirituality and authentic belonging. He currently serves as a ruling elder at Grace Covenant Presbyterian Church.

Rev. Sara Wilcox is the founding and sole pastor of Land of the Sky United Church of Christ in Asheville, NC, where she works to build faith communities rooted in justice, belonging, and abundant love. Grounded in progressive Christian theology and a deep commitment to collective liberation, Sara’s work bridges pastoral care, community organizing, sanctuary work, and faith-based justice movements. She believes deeply in the power of relationship, collaboration, and courageous community to transform both the church and the world.

Rev. Sean Hasker Palmer is Executive Director of the historic YMI Cultural Center in Asheville, NC, and a nationally recognized leader in Black cultural and educational spaces. An ordained minister, educator, and cultural strategist, Sean’s work weaves Black faith traditions, community leadership, activism, and collective liberation. He is currently pursuing his Ph.D. at NC A&T and working on a forthcoming book of poetry and preaching titled Black and Therefore Beautiful: Meditations for My People.

🔌 Plug in to find fuel for the long haul.

We'll see you same time, same place next month. Until then, peace.

Transcript

Intro

Intro 0:03

We're profoundly, profoundly interconnected. We don't always live that way, we don't always acknowledge it. But if we're going to heal, we have to live it, experience it, and create institutions that celebrate. And we create a we when no one's on the outside of it.

Welcome

Welcome & Intro 0:20

Welcome to The UPLift with Tzedek: Real Talk for Real Change. Before we jump in, a quick reminder of why we're here and what we hope to achieve. We're here to build authentic community relationships and help fuel social transformation in Asheville, North Carolina. We believe collective liberation is not only possible but probable as we share, listen, and learn together. We're here for the process. However, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.

Topic & Guest Intros

Michael 0:49

Welcome back to part two of our conversation on faith, church hurt, and collective liberation. In part one, we explored the realities of spiritual trauma, toxic theology, and the lasting impact of religious communities that cause harm while claiming love. We also heard stories of resilience, healing, and the difficult but often necessary work of holding on to faith after betrayal. Today we move from naming the wound to exploring the repair. As white Christian nationalism continues to shape public life, many faith communities find themselves at a crossroads. What does it mean to practice faith in ways that expand dignity rather than restrict it? How do communities move beyond good intentions towards accountability, courage, and collective care? And what can faith traditions offer at a time when so many people are searching for meaning, connection, and a path forward? This conversation isn't about easy answers. It's about wrestling with complexity, reclaiming liberatory traditions, and practicing a faith rooted in justice, belonging, and our shared humanity. Let's jump back in.

Libby 1:50

We have five amazing people with us today, and we're gonna talk a little bit about church hurt, repair, faith, and what is required in this moment for collective liberation. To begin, my beautiful people, please introduce yourselves.

Sara 2:05

Good afternoon. My name is Sara Wilcox. I am the pastor of Land of the Sky United Church of Christ.

Sean 2:10

Uh good afternoon. My name is Sean Palmer. So I serve as the director of the YMI Cultural Center, but I am also uh recently um I was a pastor of a Presbyterian church, the oldest Black Presbyterian church in the state of North Carolina, which has also uh held the families of the folks who were a part of 1898 and the massacre.

Claudia 2:31

Hello, hola. My name is Claudia Jimenez. My pronouns are she ella. I am transitioning from parish ministry to community ministry in the Unitarian Universalist Faith.

Adonis 2:44

Good afternoon. My name is Adonis Lewis II. I um serve as the director of strategy and impact for RSAA.

Malachi 2:51

Hi, uh, my name is Malachi Gasaway. Um I use he, him pronouns. I am an elder at Grace Covenant Presbyterian Church here in Asheville.

Solidarity Practices & Strategies

Libby 3:00

So, what specific practices, what structures have we all put in place? Number one, to ensure that people are safe, but also to ensure that this is a welcoming environment where we can make connections, where we can build more communities, so we can stand more in collective liberation with one another versus being divided and being taught who does and doesn't belong.

Malachi 3:24

I I think I in some of the earlier question where everyone talking about like I want to come back to this like discomfort and just getting really uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. Cause I think in this, like creating a safe space, you have to be able to have these discussions for somebody and for somebody who has been harmed to be able to be like, hey, this is what I need. It necessarily requires a safe space for people to be able to feel they can say that sort of thing. We need to like start undoing, like, here's this supremacy culture we've been handed down, white supremacy, Christian supremacy, and undoing that, like, here is what is actually doing, and having honest conversations about it and being able to have that accountability, you know, when we're when we're making these spaces safer, and then people are coming in, and like you said, we're not making room for racism, homophobia, transphobia, to be able to have folks to step in and say, hey, let's work through this. Yes, people are welcome here. And we also need to make sure everyone is welcome. And racism and homophobia cannot exist when everyone is welcome. And I think it falls to, you know, it's like, I'm a white man. It's like it falls to me when somebody is being racist to be able to step up and be like, hey, this is problematic, and let's have a conversation about that. And then if you know somebody's being transphobic, it falls to someone else who is, you know, can step in and say, hey, this is what's problematic, and here's here's what we need in that situation so that we don't feel like we're out there on an island when something bad happens. A good thing in my community is like we've had those conversations, and even in like our leadership, we've had these conversations and like we've had to do it ourselves. We've had to be able to name that with each other so we can name that to the broader congregation. It's produced people that's like, I know if something happens, they have my back and I don't have to think about it. But that's not always been the case, right? And it's definitely not been the case like what I've grown up in and other churches I've been in, but it's just very intentionally like, and it takes time, but like have the hard conversations.

Sean 5:50

Yeah. I was gonna say that for the African-American congregation, specifically for the black church in the context of the US, it it's also going back into Sankofa, is to remind the black church that it was not supposed to exist, and that the church has always had a radical tradition of liberation from its from Nat Turner forward, from the African Methodist Episcopal Church forward. Even the ways in which Pentecostalism is practiced is also melded, and I know we this is controversial, but it's melded to West African culture. It is, it is Santeria and Candomblé in another form. And so as a pastoral leader, theological leader, when I was pastoring, one of the ways in which I thought that I could inform practice was make room for pastors who do not get the mic. So marginalized pastors, there were a number of pastors who were women or queer or even black men who were just not utilized because their theological framework and intellectual curiosity was seen as dangerous or heterodox. They were rubbing up against heresy. But the reality is they weren't rubbing against heresy. They were owning a tradition that had been told that they would they don't have, they don't have ownership of. So I think that was one piece. I would say the second piece, we all need much more inventive sermons on Sunday morning to dine on. Churches in general need to both figure out a way, and Southern black churches in general need a way to think about their own traditions of civil rights and justice work and how they bring that to the pulpit in talking about salvation. For me, I think I think it's crazy that I and I would say one of the challenges of being at Asheville, Asheville is a progressive city with a progressive. There are like it's more progressive than I would say many of our other neighboring cities, and we're blue dot in a red space. But I don't know if I see that mimicked in black church space. I wonder if pastors are afraid that they're gonna lose even more of the congregation that they don't have, because I think that's a possibility. But I also think um there has to be somebody speaking to the traditions of progressive, not just the progressive, but to the traditions of freedom, the traditions of liberation, the traditions of support of our communities so that folks can make sense of the difficulties of watching femicide by black male hands and still thinking about mental health with black men, but also how we grieve black women and the proximity to violence that exists for them. I think if there are no preachers doing that, then we can't have congregations who are thinking congregations. And those thinking congregations go back to jobs where they're asked to put this other hat on and they have no frame of reference that this is also a spiritual piece. So for me, like there's a lot missing. Like I think you can practice it individually, but there need there is a need for much more collective practices so that we are listening to really interesting, engaging, sermonic moments that push us to go into the world and be better people.

Claudia 9:07

Yeah. And I think alongside that, the challenge for predominantly white churches that rest on the laurels of, oh, well, we participated in the civil rights movement, we've done this, I've been there, I've done that. And this is a moment for courageous sermons and moral imagination that challenges white people of faith who are willing to do the easy stuff and can tune out when they need to and figure out what does it really mean to live out our faith, to take the risks and do what is needed for collective liberation, because there's also a lot of inward focus. And yes, we all need time for rest, but it's rest that re-energizes us to go out and do the work. And sometimes that part gets lost. And I think there's a responsibility in our predominantly white churches to mobilize people and for pastors and ministers to be courageous and say the things that need to be said because we can't work together, you know. And what does it look like to be in relationship with the black church in our community? So I think that there is that other side of the work that needs to be done that sometimes gets it's lost because there's too much um wanting to allow people to stay comfortable. And this is not a time. This is not the time. It's dangerous to live in that inward space. We need to go outward beyond our walls.

Sean 10:41

You know who we're leaving off the table? Multicultural churches, because they do think of themselves as being in a better position because they've got they figured out location. But what they have not figured out is power. Most multi-ethnic churches struggle with what kind of aesthetic they're gonna offer and who's gonna lead the church. So, again, like very often it looks like our suburban communities. Yes, we live near black people, Asian people, Latinx people, but there are no expressions of their culturals in those spaces or the theological frameworks that they bring to the table. So, in some ways, there is a worse power dynamic in those spaces than are in our traditionally black, white, or other congregations that are more homogenous.

Adonis 11:26

I wanted to go back as to like your question specifically, where you know, what structures or practices to improve safety. I'll just name safety looks different. My safety is not your safety. And so I appreciate the conversation and I've heard a lot of great things. And some of the onus is also um on the parishioners. Like there's a growing movement towards what was mentioned earlier, towards focusing on the love of God and just the love of Jesus and love. And I appreciate that. And as a parishioner, what I do is find spaces that affirm that. And and so what I'll say is that like every space, every church is not for everyone. And I I mean, and I think that that's okay because denominations and all of those were created because people are differently comfortable and differently, you know, the Presbyterian and some of you know, the parts where they where it gets into who's right or who's wrong, or you you need to cross your hands when you take communion, or or it's not, it doesn't mean it, or you know, all those things, you know, leave all that at the door. But like I I get to show up and find congregations and find spaces that allow me to feel whole and safe. And there's there's something to be said of that as well. Like while it's important for, you know, for leadership and for pastors and and churches in general to to move towards all of these practices, there's so many different churches that I can go to and find my place. And that's what I've like, that's what I've found is a beautiful thing and as a freeing thing. It it doesn't have to just be what's been traditionally seen. There, the interdenominational, the non-denominational, if that works for you, if that's going to be a space that allows you to be whole, allows you to feel safe, whatever that looks like for you, then there's also that, you know, that that's a practice that that I can hold as a parishioner myself to show up in spaces and worship in spaces that allow me to feel that way.

Sara 13:08

Um, one of the things that I think uh a practice we put in place that I think is really important came out of our work um around race and racial justice and the hurt and conflict that happened um within our own community on that. And through that development, we uh started to ensure we used restorative practices and focused on what we do when we hurt each other, not the assumption that we won't hurt each other. Because it's really actually hard to do things courageously and not hurt people. We all have different levels of safety, we all have different things we need. And the most important thing we need to be cultivating in ourselves is the capacity to come to the table to try to restore and repair. Now, that doesn't mean that we always that we'll forget. And the repair of something doesn't mean that you may restore a relationship. People may choose to never be in a space again or never be with the people again who've hurt them. Um, but there is something to be said to the process of coming back and giving space for the hurt to be named and for both sides to hear that in a way in which you're not trying to be right. You're trying to figure out how you hurt someone.

Faith as Fuel for Collective Liberation

Libby 14:15

So, in this thinking, in this conversation around collective liberation, why is faith important? Why are we even having this conversation? Why why is it important to collective liberation?

Claudia 14:25

I would just go back to this idea that so many traditions embrace of moving toward beloved community, toward community where no one is expendable, where everyone is thriving, and whatever theology grounds us and helps us to move in that direction, it's important. And secondly, because this is work that is long haul work. And if we don't have spiritual practices and we don't have faith in God and faith in humanity, faith in possibility that our actions are going to make a difference, it is easy to lose heart and step away. And so I think faith is crucial to the perseverance that we need, to the resilience that we need. And there's so much commonality among faiths that are moving in love towards liberation for all.

Sean 15:21

I would just argue that uh there's this concept called eschaton or eschatological hope that really describes what happens in the end. And I think when I look up at what my grandmother faced in her lifetime, or when I listened in when my mother was integrating schools and the trauma and tragedy and harm and violence of the periods that they lived in, and even this period, I don't have an option to sit in my anger and pain and just allow it to brew in a way that I undo my own self. And I think that's where we are in this moment. I think African American communities in general have faith, have to have a faith, need a faith rooted in community and rooted in a hope that this cannot stand. This cannot stand because this isn't the this cannot be the end. And so for us or for myself, I I don't want my child to only have a blues narrative. I don't want to live in a world that is only a blues narrative. I understand the need for blues, I understand the need for trap, which is another form of blues, but also I need hope, healing. I need the gospel. I need that in order to get to the next day, in order to see a brighter future. And I know there's a brighter future because I've experienced it before.

Adonis 16:57

Faith is what grounds the movement, or I mean all of us in general. And it kind of was shared before. I I know in my work and the way I show up, it didn't start with me, and it's not going to end with me. And I feel like the ancestral wisdom or just even conversations from my parents, my grandparents, what people experienced in slavery, the enslaved people had faith that didn't start with them and they knew it wouldn't end with them. And they believed that a change would come. In the civil rights movement, in the Jim Crow South, when folks were integrating schools, when all the things that were going through were in the coal mines, working, having faith that it would pay off, or that if they worked hard, that their children and their children's children would be able to see a different future. I know it didn't start with me, and I know it's not going to end with me. That faith is the fuel that I have to keep going. And it shows up differently for a lot of people. For me, it's in God. For for some it's in the universe, for some it's in possibility that was named, but it's faith that fuels us for a brighter tomorrow and that collective liberation. If we did not have that, what would we be working towards? What would we be fighting for?

Malachi 17:59

I think for me too, like I think about scripture in this moment where we're talking about it, it's like, you know, whatever you believe about like Jesus or God or whatever. I think it's the stories we have told ourselves and we tell each other really matter. And I think, you know, as I've sort of like grown in my faith tradition and sort of moved away from some of the things I grew up with and like have been, I consider myself a little bit like a baby and like, you know, like kind of justice stuff. But as I learn and as I grow, scripture comes even like more alive, as like the things Jesus said made a lot more sense, like being able to, like, even with the wrestling, like Jacob wrestling with God and the in Genesis, like just those kinds of things just come even more alive for me. You know, it's like even Jesus came and died and resurrected is like, you know, death is not the end of the story. And whether you believe that's a literal resurrection or whatever you want to believe about that, it's like that's a story we tell ourselves. It's like it's not ending with us. Jesus came and did a whole lot of things, but it didn't even end with him. We're continuing on. You know, I think there's a lot of courage. There's also a lot of like hard truth in some of that too. It's like, oh, we're not gonna see that in our lifetime. That's hard to sit with sometimes, but I think also knowing like people can take it on is a way to help with that too.

Sara 19:29

Yeah, it seems to me that the Christian church has never actually lived fully into the hopes of Jesus to start. So the initial preacher. The initial call was a collective liberation. Um, it was anti-empire, it was all the things that we see in movement work today, is where Jesus was. So it's fascinating how people domesticated Jesus. Come on, preacher. Made Jesus Him, uh, made him a mascot um for America, and um have failed to follow in his ways. So and and his ways, I mean, I think they were a way, they are the way that's bigger than him. I think Christ is Christian consciousness, it's not um one understanding of the Messiah who you will be saved by and through. We have to get more complex in our thinking, in our understandings of faith, um, and move through kind of simple understanding to more complex understandings. But when we start deconstructing, we need to be reconstructing. It's not healthy to live just in the deconstruction. So when you've been a person of faith and you when you decide you're gonna uh become agnostic, right? It turns out to not be so healthy there either. Faith is part of our humanity because we're spiritual people. We are human beings having a spiritual experience. Come on, preacher. Um, let's have it together. Let's do it in our movements, let's do it in our churches and our synagogues and our temples.

Claudia 20:50

Yeah. And I think I would add moving away from that theology of otherworldliness and reminding ourselves that the heaven that we experience is gonna be right here on earth, and the hell that we create is gonna be right here on earth. So, what does love call us to do in this moment for collective liberation?

On Hope

Libby 21:13

I didn't got all off track because I don't even know where to go next. Because this was this was fuel. And I feel like my last question, we kind of sort of just went through a little bit. That question was in this moment, how do you remain hopeful while building spaces of belonging with dignity and collective liberation?

Sara 21:31

I can answer this quickly because Malachi, you sort of spoke to this, but it's it is really understanding myself and uh the community that I'm a part of and this world in evolutionary terms. We don't ever get to see it all. We will um sit under the tree and receive the shade that someone else planted the seeds for. It is our work to be a part of moving along the world towards greater collective liberation. And we do see it. We see it every day. And we see so much more that could happen.

Adonis 22:00

Uh, my hope is built on the foundation that well, it just it just stems from. I feel like just my testimony is is a living example of liberation as a possibility, of restoration as a possibility. And so my message and and my ministry is rooted in a deep gratitude for faith and for the love of God, and a calling to share it at the most personal and intimate and broad levels that God is for everyone. No matter what your story, no matter where you came from, no matter what you've gone through, no matter what you've done, God is there and God is real. And so, in self-liberation that I found, it just grounds me in a hope for the collective liberation because I know liberation is possible. And I feel like part of my calling is to share that with the world in a in a real form, just in a hey, I'm somebody that grew up in church in all the ways and strayed very far away from it. That prodigal son's story in the Bible is is is a real part of my testimony. It is literally from the pig pen to someone in today that is occupying spaces of influence and and purpose and power, it's possible.

Malachi 23:09

I think hope does kind of come hard for me sometimes, to be honest. I think I can get very caught up in like the moment and like seeing all the horrible things happening in the world, and I can sort of get very cynical and it's very easy to do. And I think one thing for me that's really held me up is we are a community and we can't do this alone. And I think like I think I mentioned right at the beginning, the kind of the the move from faith being like an individual thing to being a part of a community has really been like one of the biggest shifts from the way I grew up. So I think to be able to lean on my community and to see the people around me and not be afraid to be like, hey, I'm having this hard day. Like, you know, I don't see it today. And having people around me be like, no, we'll see it for you, you know.

Claudia 24:04

And I think that's so important to be able to be real about in this moment I'm not feeling hope. In this moment, I'm feeling doubt. And even then being embraced and being welcomed and knowing that community holds you and community is there for you again, grounded in love. Because we are we are human, we are fallible, and these moments are trying our faith, our faith in humanity, our faith in each other, and yet we know that we show up over and over again. And what we've seen in this community through Helene, through COVID, just reminds us that across theologies, we share a lot of the same values. And all over this country, in every state in this country, there are communities where this love is radiating outward. And all of that collectively is making a difference. And for me, that is what keeps me hopeful because we are not alone. We are co-creating this together, and many people are rising up to meet this moment.

Sean 25:12

The Delaney sisters wrote a book that said they needed to have their say. And I believe that there are good people of good faith, good conscience who are in this moment reminding us that we do not get to cede power to the worst of ourselves and the worst of our ambitions, and that we have a responsibility to keep fighting, keep pushing, keep moving. When I think about that in terms of hope, I think about the building that someone built in 1893. I think about what it meant to move here, building a life in East End or Shiloh or Emma or any of our legacy communities. I think about my great-great-great-grandmother who put her name on the building to help build New Bethel AME, or my great-great-great uncle who had to buy land twice. My ancestral veneration, my community that is, so my past and my present and my future are all guided by this one big sense that this world is not finished, that this thing that is is just in the middle. And we do not have the responsibility of giving up. We are all like Elijah on a mountain crying out to a God who we think we're the only one and we just want to give up. And God has to remind us as we peer out on the mountain after having God's food and God's water and God's rest, that there are others like us who are fighting the good fight of this faith. And so that is what holds me. That is what holds me, that is what reminds me. That is what keeps me in this moment. And I hope that folks, if your space is not renewing you, if the space that you're in does not feed your spirit, find you a new space. Find you a new space that does that, find you in multiple spaces. Third spaces shouldn't just be enjoyed on the weekends. Third spaces need to be enjoyed Monday through Friday and Saturday as well.

Libby 27:07

Wow. Thank you guys so much for coming together today for this conversation. This has been very good food for my soul. And I try to listen more than I speak. And I just want to name that in this conversation, what has been very nourishing for me is hearing all the different perspectives. But at the root of every single thing that I've heard, there's still that love ethos. So thank you guys. And I think that we all could learn a lot from each of you in terms of how do we come together and make sure that we have enough for all. And that when we talk about collective liberation, no one's left out of the collective. Thank y'all again.